Dinoflaggelates

Iammatt · 06-03-2008, 06:43 PM

Hey is there any cleaners that would eat Dino's?

johnmaloney · 06-04-2008, 01:46 AM

I am pretty sure our ceriths do. I have heard reports of this, but haven't seen them personally eat it, but then again I haven't had any. I know longspine urchins do, but they get the size of a volleyball, which would be a problem in most tanks, maybe you could get an urchin on loan. Where are they in your tank? If it is on the sand, I got a horseshoe crab you can have for free. Do you have any pics? How old is the tank?

FutureInterest · 06-04-2008, 03:44 PM

Snails that eat dinos typically end up dying.

johnmaloney · 06-04-2008, 07:15 PM

Not sure about that. First time I have ever heard it. When red tide comes in, snails, shrimp, crabs and urchins are the only survivors. Do you have a reference for this, I would like to look into it. I know queen conchs eat dinos, but they are probably too big for most tanks. Fighting conchs have similar feeding habits, and conchs are know to eat them, but unless I see it for my own eyes, or have a definitive reference I don't want to say it is true.

Have you tried combating it with macro algae? Macro algae easily out competes its micro counterparts.

By the way, Are you sure it is dinos? I would say 9 times out of ten people ask me about dinos it is a diatoms problem. Dinos are generally kept under control by the critters that live in your live rock, and with sand bed fauna. If you can't get a picture, let me know what it looks like by describing it to the best of your ability. How does it feel when you touch it, how tall is it, etc..

Iammatt · 06-04-2008, 09:14 PM

John, Thank you for all the help so far. Ok now for some specifics of my system. I have a 125 gallon tank that has been set up for just under a year, with the majority of the live rock coming from a 58 gallon reef tank connected to a 30 galllon refugium/ mantis tank with a central sump. with some additional rock added. As far as to if it is dino's or not, I am 99% sure that they are dino's. Best way to describe them is a cross between cyano and bubbly hair algae with a considerable amount building up on the surface of the water towards the end of my light cycle. Also it kind of smells like skimate around my reeftank. Additionally, my nitrates and phosphates both test negligable (phosphates using a hach colorimeter) and nitrates using an elos test kit. I do know that I need to refertilize( forlack of a better word) my micro/macro fauna as I have mostly just large amphipods now, and have never had a large population of micro brittle stars. BTW i do have a pencil urchin in my refugium.

Once again thank you for all the help so far.

On a side note if I remember correctly while many dino's do contain many differnt toxins, the major cause for die off's during a red tide is the lack of dissolved oxygen as a result of the nightly die off of dino's.

but then again I might not remember correctly

FutureInterest · 06-04-2008, 10:30 PM

Reefs.org: Where Reefkeeping Begins on the Internet - Dinoflagellates, or was that "Boogers with Bubbles"?

"... blooms are toxic to aquarium inhabitants. Herbivorous snails may roll over, stop eating and die. Tangs that eat the dinoflagellates may stop feeding and starve to death. Sea urchins that eat them may loose their spines and die."

What you're seeing in this tank is probably just a type of cyano or a mix of cyano and diatoms. True dino infestations cause many a reefer to quit the hobby... and are very difficult to be rid of.

Iammatt · 06-04-2008, 11:02 PM

Iammatt · 06-04-2008, 11:03 PM

sorry, but these are the clearest pics I could get. As a result of running my skimmer wet I now have microbubbles

johnmaloney · 06-05-2008, 06:30 AM

I did see some diatoms on the sand bed, but I couldn't tell if there were any dinos. I did see some bubbles, and dinos are generally brown thread like looking things and can have trapped air bubbles in them, but I don't know if those bubbles are from your skimmer. If you can get a close up pic with your camera's macro setting that would help.

How old is the tank?

johnmaloney · 06-05-2008, 06:34 AM

Thanks for the link future interest. Not sure if we were discussing the same thing though, as that red tide blooms may be toxic to fish and to a lesser extent inverts but he doesn't have red tide, he may have just some dinos. Longspine urchins definitely eat them, and that was mentioned as something that may die if a bloom occurs, but eating them certainly doesn't kill them. Here in Florida we experience red tide at times, (twice this year), and while I have seen fish kills, I don't think I have seen inverts at all washing up en masse. My brother's snail colonies were unaffected by it completely, except for the fact that my brother couldn't fish them for 2 weeks. (A public health thing, we went diving that week anyway, red tide really isn't all that bad to humans unless you have respitory problems, then you may cough for a few hours). The article also mentions that tangs will die in the same quote you used, but he has a hippo tang cruising around the tank.

FutureInterest · 06-05-2008, 07:39 AM

My pleasure. The article though is not discussing red tide specifically. There are many varieties of dinoflagellates. They can be a myriad of colors from green to brown to red. Some are more toxic than others. The one we most commonly see in the home aquarium is typically snot brown and is quite toxic to most herbivores.

Trust me if you have dinos in your tank... its quite a headache to be rid of them. The only method that worked for me was to raise my alk above 13-14. Oddly that seemed to kill it off. There's a thread on reefcentral on this particular topic.

Anyways, I'm not seeing a dino infestation in this tank. That's just cyano or diatoms or a mixture of both. No worries

.

Reefergonemad · 06-05-2008, 01:29 PM

lol zooxanthellae are dinos.